Phil King has just returned from a series of foreign dates playing bass with the Jesus and Mary Chain – with a US tour to follow this September, 2012 . He has also just seen some of his interviews with legendary glam era/proto-punk figures published in a collection of obscure glam (and some not so obscure) and pop picture sleeves called Wired Up! Find that here!
I figured this was a very good time to catch up with a busy Phil on music, life, Jesse Hector and his various contributions to the music biz…
I think I met you first Phil through our mutual Jesse Hector connection so let’s start there. Tell me a little bit of how you came to be a Jesse Hector aficionado?
Well around 1997 I picked up this amazing rough diamond of a single by a group called Helter Skelter titled ‘I Need You’ on this weird little record label called Sticky – which has probably my favourite designed label, of a man up a ladder with a bucket of wallpaper paste and a long brush pasting up a poster with ‘Sticky’ printed on it – and was intrigued by the fact that the vocals on it sounded very much like Jesse Hector, but confused at the same time, as the label said it was made in 1977 – and it certainly sounded like it as it was very punky – but thought how could this be as Jesse would have been in The Gorillas at this point in his career? I had picked up the single from this guy who I found when I’d put a lineage ad in the back of Record Collector looking for Junkshop Glam singles. He had worked as a sales person at Bell records and had amassed an amazing collection of mostly demo singles from the early to mid ’70s which he listed for sale for a few pounds each. He very kindly not only supplied me with a handwritten list but also recorded both sides of each single up to the first chorus of the song on a cassette. I got some incredible singles from him. I of course remembered The Gorillas from the music press of the day as they had a very distinctive look what with Jesse’s mutton chops, garish checked trousers and the group’s singular space age mod appearance. Quite unlike anyone else at the time. And being during the time of punk this is saying something. But who were Helter Skelter? Searching online I found your site Mohair Sweets, which had an excellent extensive blog on Jesse and told of this amazing back story of groups that he had been in before – and after – The Gorillas. It was fascinating. Amongst the many groups listed that Jesse had been in there was one called Helter Skelter in the early 1970s – and a photo of them standing around looking tough on a Kilburn bombsite – but it didn’t list any single. I remember contacting you and telling you about it and you being pretty much nonplussed. Not long after I struck gold and found some more copies – and a few other Sticky label gems – crate digging at a Sunday record fair in Russell Square in a box of £1 singles mostly on the President label (Sticky was a subsidiary of President) tucked away under a record dealer’s trestle table and sent you a copy. I also gave a copy to Phillipe Migrenne, Jesse’s manager, who I was introduced to through you and he then introduced me to Jesse. By this point I had collected the amazing proto-punk bruisers Crushed Butler’s 10″ album that had recently been unearthed, a group that one reviewer described as ‘ugly music for ugly people’. Also I got an EP of Jesse’s rock n’ roll recordings from the early 1960s, The Hammersmith Gorillas ‘Gorilla Got Me’ compilation on Ace and of course The Gorillas album, ‘Message To The World’, which was stunning. It’s the history of rock n’ roll in one record – and the cover is amazing too. The Gorillas on a meteorite coming down to save earth with rock n’ roll! At this time I had just started putting out Junkshop Glam compilations and related albums for a label called RPM so suggested to Jesse that we put together a compilation of recordings from throughout his illustrious career which we named Gorilla Garage. Not long afterwards I also got involved in the making of a documentary by Caroline Catz on Jesse Hector called A Message To The World, which got shown at various film festivals including the Raindance Festival in London in 2008.
The other main thing that I know you for is the “junk shop glam” collection things you’ve been involved with. How do you personally define glam and the “junk shop” version of glam?
John Lennon once famously described Glam as being rock n’ roll with a bit of lipstick on. I personally see it as a natural progression from bubblegum that came just before it. The same insanely catchy tunes, as few chords as humanly possible, fuzztoned guitars – but with added tub thumping drums and dressed up a bit. No – a lot.
Junk Shop Glam is just the glam that missed the charts – or the boat. There was an article in Disc around about 1974 (which was getting pretty late for glam) that had a list of new acts who were tipped for the top. Cockney Rebel and Sparks were in it, as were Hector. The first two went on to greater success of course, but unfortunately Hector didn’t. Even though they had the look – painted on freckles on their faces, stripy t-shirts, dungarees, (a look based on Dennis The Menace) – and an amazing first single in Wired Up (which was the first song on my Junkshop Glam compilation Boobs and the title of the book coming out this month of European picture sleeve singles from the early to mid ’70s – the first 500 copies come with a vinyl copy of the single) the single sadly never troubled the charts.
Some readers may of course know you as the bassist of Lush. You’ve been very busy though lately as the bottom end of the reunited Jesus and Mary Chain. How about a run down on some of the other groups you have provided bass for before we get into details and specifics on the Mary Chain and such…
Well I’ve played with a lot of people. The Servants, Felt, Biff Bang Pow!, The Hangman’s Beautiful Daughters, Apple Boutique, See See Rider, Welfare Heroine, Lush, Adrian Borland (on a track on his ‘Cinemantic’ album), The Jesus And Mary Chain, Earl Brutus, Brett Smiley, John Howard, Sister Vanilla, Jackie De Shannon, Les Hommes Responsables (60s French covers band), John’s Children and The John Moore Rock And Roll Trio.
Maybe I should put Jesse Hector in there as well as I did rehearse with him.
Plus you are still working on getting Jesse Hector to a gig! Could you retire then you figure?
I could certainly retire when I get Jesse to gig. It might be a long wait though!
Let’s get back to the Jesus and Mary Chain briefly here. World tour was it? My guess is there were a lot of people who had waited a long time to see the band…?
The touring has been pretty sporadic this year. First of all Texas, then we went to China, Hong Kong, Singapore, and then back to the US – San Francisco, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, San Diego – and then Buffalo and a couple of dates in Canada a few weeks ago. We’re due to go back to the US for a three week tour in September and then have a few shows in Tel Aviv in October. Think that might be it for the year. Hopefully lots more shows next year. Who knows, maybe we might even play Europe.
The shows have been going very well. Lots of young people down the front. There seems to be even more interest this time round than when the group first reformed in 2007. Maybe we are becoming like those old blues guys that people want to catch playing while we are still together. Catch us while you can.
Indulge me if you will. I have a bit of a thing about where people go to find space and feel comfortable in their neighbourhoods and that includes eating. Without giving too much away – unless of course you want to – have you got a fave or two?
When I’m not on tour and working in London I tend to not stray far from where I live in Highgate. In the evenings and like to go a local Indian restaurant on the Archway Road. When I am in Porto with my family we go to a great fish restaurant down near the harbour. Grilled sardine are a Portuguese speciality. Portuguese wine is great too. Especially the red from the local Douro region.
Could you tell me a little about your daytime gig? As much as I’m sure that rock’n’roll is endlessly rewarding in a spiritual sense, the money it would seem ain’t what it used to be. I mean, if it ever really was anyway…
I started picture researching quite by chance around 1988. Julie Barber, a friend of mine was freelancing at the NME on their picture desk and needed someone to cover for her and got me in. Then she left and I took over full time. I was there till the end of 1991 when I left to join Lush. I’d bought the paper – and most of the others too – every week since the early 1970s so had a good knowledge of what images were in the archive. I still use the NME photo archives these days on Uncut. It has been amalgamated with the Melody Maker photo archive so there is even a bigger selection. I also get images from picture agencies and photographers. In the old days you would have had to ring up picture agencies to see if they had certain images and then order a bike to go and pick them up. Nowadays you can just look online at their websites and download the images. I also do the picture and editorial research on the Uncut specials we have done on various artist such as David Bowie, The Who, The Clash & Led Zeppelin. There are also more and more app versions of the specials so I need to get additional images for picture galleries for them as well. We have the bound volumes of NME, Melody Maker and Disc that I can read and I also can look at digital versions of NME and Melody Maker that I have on my hard drive. I also did some picture researching for artist Jeremy Deller a few years ago for an exhibition he was doing in Paris at the Palais de Tokyo. He wanted images from dates for David Bowie’s Ziggy period tours and also photos of industrial unrest and IRA bombings around the same time that he could juxtapose with the Bowie pics. I’ve actually just recently finished working on a big Bowie book that is due out in the autumn.
I’m curious too how the business of putting a compilation CD together goes. Would you give me a brief run through of one of the comps you put together? Glitterbest in particular if you don’t mind because a number of the ’76 era punk rock crowd were featured there.
Well I was involved with helping to compile the first Junkshop Glam compilation Velvet Tinmine that came out on RPM and also helped with – and named – the Glitter From The Litter Bin comp that Sanctuary put out. When it came to do another one for RPM Mark Stratford – who runs the label – and I came up with the idea of doing one that would have songs that sounded like they were the precursor to Punk. I came up with the title ‘Glitterbest’ as the name of Malcolm McLaren’s company – which he bought off the shelf as it was a company that had gone bankrupt – for when he managed The Sex Pistols captured perfectly the mix of proto-punk, glam – and a hint of pub rock – that was going to be on the comp. I then gave Mark a list of songs that I ideally wanted to be on the compilation and then he told me which ones would be the easiest to license and also made suggestions of his own. Jesse Hector of course featured heavily with three songs on the album by The Hammersmith Gorillas, Helter Skelter & Crushed Butler. This led to RPM putting out Jesse’s ‘Gorilla Garage’ comp and also the Crushed Butler album on CD. I also put the b-side to Milk N’Cookies first single ‘Little, Lost & Innocent’ on there as well and that led to RPM releasing their album which was originally recorded in 1975 and not released till 1977 on Island. There has been a lot interest in them since and the album has been put out on vinyl – and also on cassette by a very cool label in California called Burger Records. They also have reformed to play the Wired Up book launch in New York this month. Wish I could be there to see them play.
And for those guitar aficionados out there let’s talk a little about the Phil King gear line-up. I often see you pictured with a Fender Precision bass. My bet is there are some vintage tools lurking in the shed as well, no?
The Fender Precision, which I played with Lush, has become my spare guitar with The Jesus and Mary Chain as it doesn’t have enough of an edge for their sound. They have a Fender Jazz bass which I play through an Ampeg. I play that pretty much clean apart from on a few of the songs where I use a bass fuzz pedal. I did borrow a Wooly Mammoth which sounded amazing, but had to give it back, so had a clone made which sounds pretty good. Lately I’ve been using a bass fuzz pedal supplied by our guitar tech John Kassner; I have had lots of vintage guitars over the years such as a 1960s Epiphone Rivoli and a Gretsch Anniversary but I could never afford to build up a collection and sold them to get other guitars. At the moment I have an old candy apple red Fender Jazzmaster six string guitar and a few 30w amps – a Burns Sonic and a Vox AC30. I also kept the Galien Kruger amp top that I used with Lush and one Hartke cab. The Fender Precision sounds pretty smooth but punchy through that. At home I am quite happy to play a battered old Spanish guitar that I picked up in a charity shop in the Kings Road for £15 a few years ago. It’s made by an Italian company famous for violins called Rodolfo Paralupi and has a beautifully low action on it. Inside the sound hole is written in pencil the person’s name who made it – which I can’t read – and then ‘Roma 1948.’ Maybe it’s because I’m so used to playing the bass but I like the chunkiness of the neck of Spanish guitars. Good for picking too. I’ve just looked online and seen that a 1949 model went for $900 a few years ago. Think I got a bargain.
Let’s get back again to the Wired Up! book that has just been released. You contributed four feature articles including one on Jesse Hector, one on the criminally overlooked Jook, Brett Smiley and New York’s Milk N’Cookies. I’m sure you love ‘em all but who do you think – given a bit more of a push, or some better luck – could have had a better go of it?
That’s an impossible question to answer really as they were all in with a chance. With Jesse I think the problem was switching from Chiswick to Raw and the album ‘Message To The World’ not coming out till 1978, as for The Jook their live sound was never properly captured on their five singles on RCA, their tartan trimmed look was nicked by The Bay City Rollers and it wasn’t till they recorded the ‘Watch Your Step’ EP – and that didn’t even come out till years after they split up (as two members were poached for Sparks – that they had the sound they wanted. With Brett Smiley and Milk N’ Cookies their respective record companies just gave up the ghost and shelved their albums after putting out just one single.
I must say I find some of the sleeves included in the Wired Up! book to be completely bizarre. I had to give my head a shake. What do you think was going on in some of the art departments who were supposed to be helping to promote these bands?
Acid flashbacks maybe? It would be certainly interesting to track down the graphic designers who worked on the sleeves and ask them “What were you thinking?” They are amazing though.
Last but not least Phil, have you any plans to play in platform boots anytime soon?
I think that very unlikely Colin. If I did I don’t think my bass fuzz pedal would last very long being stomped on by a very heavy platform boot.